Talk:Tilde

Concise

The names list is far, far too concise. The wave dash looks rather like a tilde. The wavy dash is extended a bit and looks like a W. The wavy line is the vertical form, and looks vaguely like a 3. But apparently, the wave dash is changing to the fullwidth tilde (why don't they just call them equal?).

301C    WAVE DASH
@+              * This character as encoded to match JIS C 6226-1978 1-33 "wave dash". Subsequent revisions of the
 JIS standard and industry practice have settled on JIS 1-33 as being the fullwidth tilde character.
        x (wavy dash - 3030)
        x (fullwidth tilde - FF5E)

3030    WAVY DASH
        x (wavy line - 2307)
        x (wave dash - 301C)

2307    WAVY LINE
        x (wavy dash - 3030)

Elektron 18:20, 2004 Nov 1 (UTC)

Tilde in Portuguese

The entry claimed that Port. "ão" was pronounced as "ow" in [English] "cow". This is not the case, at least in standard Portuguese (both European and Brazilian). The "ow" in "cow" is more like a Portuguese "au", which it isn't even a nasal diphthong. Even if we disregard nasalization, the vowel in "cow" is an "á", not an "â", as it should be. 16 Nov. 2005.

I've deleted the following: "The diphtongs "ãe", "ão" and "õe" are completely nasal - "ão" is pronounced like the english word "own"." I'm not sure what the phrase 'completely nasal' means, and it seems superfluous, in any case. This article is not about the phonology of Portuguese. It's about the use of a particular diacritic.

The second statement, that '"ão" is pronounced like the english word own', is only (approximately) true if one disregards nasalization, which is the whole point of the tilde in Portuguese, and the fact that there is no n sound at the end of Portuguese ão. It can mislead foreigners learning Portuguese into thinking that 'ão' is pronounced just like 'own', which is not true. 22 Dec. 2005.

Please put G with tilde character in Unicode

Please put G with tilde character URGENTLY in Unicode! It is of great importance for obvious reasons! --Jaques O. Carvalho ☜ 13:39, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

This is not something that Wikipedia controls. You would have to lobby the Unicode Consortium to get it added as a single precomposed character. But if I were you, I wouldn't bother. Their position is any arbitrary "letter with diacritic" should be constructed using the codepoint for the letter together with the codepoint for the combining diacritic to produce the desired glyph. As the article G with tilde explains. (Nearly the same technique as was done with typewriters!) Yes, they know that it is not fair that European letterforms were given dedicated codepoints but that was back then but it couldn't go on.--𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 14:01, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

A dedicated codepoint is not needed: you can just type G̃/g̃. Theknightwho (talk) 20:18, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

So no doubt you can enlighten us on how that might be done. Which keyboard setting, better still physical keyboard, does that? I won't hold my breath. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 22:33, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

@JMF How would adding it to Unicode assist with that? Are you aware of any keyboards with ḿ (U+1E3F), for instance? Theknightwho (talk) 22:47, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

You wrote you can just type G̃/g̃. I asked how you could do that, because I don't believe you can "just type it".

(Though now it occurs to me that the Linux software than handles the compose key might process Compose+~+G by generating the U+0303 ◌̃ COMBINING TILDE+U+0047 G LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G pair to display G with tilde. I have no idea whether that actually exists in reality but it is certainly doable. Likewise, it should be possible to create a mapping for commodity keyboards that reads AltGr+~ G but again I have no idea if such exists. And it may be that the cure is worse then the disease, see next.)

The symbol is in Unicode, but as a two character sequence, not a single pre-composed character. In plain text, that is not an issue but anything that does sorting won't handle it sensibly. I suspect that is one of the many reasons to use G with circumflex instead. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 11:48, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

@JMF That's what the Unicode Collation Algorithm is for, which a lot of software uses (albeit not Wikipedia). Plus, I'm not really sure how being encoded as an atomic character would help with sorting anyway, even if you're not using the UCA: codepoint order is often quite arbitrary. I'm also baffled by your suggestion of using Ĝ/ĝ - we shouldn't ever be substituting the wrong character like that. Theknightwho (talk) 21:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@Theknightwho: You still haven't explained how "you can just type it".

No, I don't and wouldn't suggest it. I can't easily find it again but I read somewhere that "people" (tbd) use U+011D ĝ LATIN SMALL LETTER G WITH CIRCUMFLEX instead because that does have a precomposed character. Without finding the evidence again, the question must be moot (US sense). What I did find though is that g with tilde may be seen stylistically in Turkish instead of U+011F ğ LATIN SMALL LETTER G WITH BREVE! though how and why I have no idea.

Thanks for pointing to the UCA. I came across it a few years back and had totally forgotten about it. So my conjecture about sort order bites the dust.--𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 22:42, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@JMF It depends on your system: on Windows, typing g 3 0 3 then ALT + X will give you g̃, though it doesn't seem to work on Chrome, annoyingly, but it was fine when I tested it in a few other programs. Alternatively, on Wikipedia you could add g̃ in wikitext, which will work as well: g̃. "303" is the codepoint for the combining tilde, but either of these methods will work for any codepoint. Theknightwho (talk) 23:14, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Ah, ok. It doesn't work on Chrome, so I hadn't seen it, though I can see that in principle it should do. Maybe you could add something to combining diacritic? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:40, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

and add a note at G with tilde for this specific case? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:43, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@JMF I'd prefer that we added something like that systematically, preferably as part of an infobox or something like that, as it's an issue that applies to loads of characters. That being said, the HTML column in the table on G with tilde already shows the second option. Theknightwho (talk) 12:38, 18 October 2024 (UTC)