Talk:President of Dáil Éireann

Geneology question

Dear Friends,

I have a copy of a LETTER dated October 31st 1918 in which my Uncle Joe (Joseph Wall formerly of Baltinglass, Co Wicklow, an English Jail, The capital of Ireland = Liverpool England and finally the USA, is writing from an address, shown only as: Pembroke House, South Lotts Road = country and city to us unknown. The letter is historically significant and wrote to the attention of a person called 'May' and saying that 'last tuesday I was acting steward at the convention' Joe Wall it transpires was a sidekick of Michael Collins and we believe he was asked to open the 1st Dail in January 1919 some 2 months after this letter was written.

A Lieutenant in the IRA (I remeber seeing a photo of him in uniform) Joseph Wall was captured by the english (for what i dont know) and escaped hanging because he was under age. Subsequently he escaped from an english jail and made his way to USA.

Sometime in the 1980's after I believe a 38 year absence he returned to Ireland and on landing was made a "Hero of All Ireland". My uncle Joe Wall returned to USA died in the 80's and is buried i believe in Birmingham, Alabama.

Q. where can i find my Uncle Joe's IRA records / a photo / some further news that award you all gave him? thx pete wall USA.

His records should be in the Irish National Archives in Bishop St. in Dublin. It has all Royal Irish Constabulary, Dublin Metropolitan Police, Chief Secretary for Ireland and viceregal records. He probably features there. The Irish Times (D'Olier Street, Dublin 2) is Ireland's paper of record and should have information in its extensive library. I would suggest contacting both the National Archives and The Irish Times. Also contact the Irish Embassy in Washington. They may be able to track down some information or suggest other sources. FearÉIREANN 19:46, 16 Oct 2003 (UTC)

W.T. Cosgrave

Does anybody know whether in August - December 1922, W.T. Cosgrave described himself as President of the Irish Republic or President of Dáil Éireann? --Henrygb 17:55, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Aire or Áire ?

This page and others in the same area use Priomh Áire, Áireacht, etc. rather than Priomh Aire, Aireacht, etc. Was this the designated contemporary spelling for these offices, or a touch of fada-rrhoea on the part of the poster? Joestynes 11:40, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Looks like fada-rrhoea to me! Moilleadóir 20:51, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I uncovered a case of fada-rrhoea at Attorney General of Ireland some time ago. Djegan 20:24, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I noticed that you reverted a correction of Á to A over in Aireacht which made me wonder if there was some historical spelling variation going on. I suspect not in this case, though Árd-Aighne is in fact the correct pre-Caighdeán spelling! ;-P  — Moilleadóir 04:02, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Árd-Aighne may very well be the correct spelling but it is not that as used in the Irish text of the constitution. Djegan 19:03, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

NB: Pre-Caighdeán spelling, i.e. now incorrect spelling.  — Moilleadóir 21:44, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Point noted regarding spellings - one could write a whole article on the whole controversy over the spelling, grammer and how it effected the status of the language. (Indeed their is some question as to wither the current offical text of the constitution, in Irish, using reformed spelling is proper). Djegan 21:53, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Copyedit needed

This "sentence" (!) is a dog's breakfast and neeeds a copyedit:

• The constitutional structures of the Irish Republic continued in existence, answerable to Dáil Éireann following the signing of the Anglo-Irish Treaty, which on the other hand had abolished the Irish Republic, alongside a Provisional Government selected by the House of Commons of Southern Ireland (elected in 1921 under the Government of Ireland Act 1920) and appointed by the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland.

Trouble is, it is a difficult area. In UK law, the Aireacht had no legitimate existence; in Irish Republic law, the Parliament of Southern Ireland had no legitimate existence. Even after ratification (not signing, by the way) the Aireacht continued in practical office while the "Provisional Government of Southern Ireland" did so only for a few hours, to play charades with HMG. But there must be a better way than this! --Red King 19:23, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Actually the Provisional Goverment continued until 6 December 1922. FearÉIREANN 19:35, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

• • How about Despite the Anglo-Irish Treaty being agreed in December 1921, the constitutional structures of the Irish Republic continued in existence, answerable to Dáil Éireann, until the latter ratified the Treaty in December 1922. Concurrently, according to British Law, the legal government was the Provisional Government of Southern Ireland, selected by the House of Commons of Southern Ireland (elected in 1921 under the (UK) Government of Ireland Act 1920) and nominally appointed by the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland – though in practice neither this Government nor this Parliament ever met other than as needed in (UK) law, to confirm the decisions of the Dáil. This continued until both assemblies disolved on 6 December 1922 and resumed as the Third Dáil, this time of the Irish Free State.

any better? --Red King 00:29, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

President

My understanding was that the title of 'President' was avoided by the Dáil as the Irish Republic had a 'President' already, namely who ever was the head centre of the IRB. This person was considered to be de jure President by the Irish Republican Brotherhood which had a strong voice and leading role in much of the revolutionary activity occuring at this time. EoinBach (talk) 20:08, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Can someone please provide some 'proof' for the argument that the term 'president of the Republic' had been avoided due to the Monarchist element in Sinn Féin. I have only ever seen this argument put forward in Wikipedia and there aren't any references to it. As I have already stated above, Ireland already had a 'President of the Republic' i.e. the President of the Supreme Council of the IRB who was, in the IRB's eyes, President of the Republic of Ireland. Many of the members of the Dáil (and most of its prime movers) were members of the IRB and so would have seen their leader as the President with the Dáil as the representative body - This is a quote from the Wikipedia entry on Michael Collins 'In 1919, Collins had a number of roles. That summer he was elected president of the IRB (and therefore, in the doctrine of that organisation, de jure President of the Irish Republic). It is my intention to remove this section, unless proof can be provided to back it up, as I don't think that it actually reflects the real situation. Any questions of a 'dual monarchy' had already been resolved (although of course Ireland did end up with such a monarchy during the Freestate) and it is clear that a Republic of Ireland was declared during the first Dáil (http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/DT/D.F.O.191901210008.html) and as such a republic had been declared it would make no sense to not have a president, as such a republic already removed the king. EoinBach (talk) 15:43, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Merge with President of the Irish Republic

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Merge. Iveagh Gardens (talk) 10:36, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

---

These were the same position, derived from the same legal source, the Dáil Constitution, but renamed after an amendment. This differs from President of the Executive Council of the Irish Free State and Taoiseach; there is a direct continuity there, with de Valera moving from one to the other seamlessly on 29 December 1937, but there was a different legal basis for this, a new constitution. A single article is a better way to describe how the different titles were used, how Griffith and Cosgrave used the earlier title, even without any amendment to the Dáil Constitution. In any case, both articles probably need continuous work, particularly to add more sources. Dáil debates, such as I've used in Government of the 1st Dáil etc. are a good resource, which I'll add once any discussion here concludes. -Iveagh Gardens (talk) 09:53, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

• Support - a clear case stated, it will make more sense this way.SeoR (talk) 10:46, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support Spleodrach (talk) 17:36, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

First post-holder?

This article says that Cathal Brugha was the first to hold the post (of President of Dáil Éireann), but the infobox at Éamon de Valera says that he was the first President of the Irish Republic – which redirects here as being synonymous per RtM above. Which is true? --Red King (talk) 18:41, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

I see that Brugha was first President of Dáil Éireann, but Dev was first President of the Republic. So the article merger has created a conundrum. --Red King (talk) 19:37, 11 March 2020 (UTC)