Talk:Fettes College

Public schools

I was at school in Edinburgh where there are about two handful of schools for boys and girls, commonly and generally referred to as public schools. I'd have said that the fact that there is an act of Parliament which covers England and not Scotland is neither here nor there ( and, being a Scot, I'd not take much notice of that in Scotland). Unfortunately for some, this handful can be divided again as some schools follow the English boarding system which is that pupils remain in one house ALL their time in the school. The Scottish system has pupils moving through a school in age groups. Which is better? The parents decide. I think it is pretty boorish to keep on stuffing in the definition of a public school into the thinggee about Fettes, as that subject is covered in another place, sort of adequately. ( noremacnomis)

I put this link in. It seems it was deleted almost at once. Why?

Barbara Shack.

I believe that this was because it consisted solely of an external link. Wikipedia articles do not need to be long but they should have some original text of their own describing the subject. Articles which consist of links and nothing else are generally deleted pretty quickly. -- Derek Ross

Barbara - I suspect someone mistook it for a joke article (we've had a plague of joke scottish articles added today, stuff about haggises tumbling down mountainsides and stuff). I do think there should be a Fettes article, but it does need to have a bit more substance than a simple link. If you've not been too discouraged, can I suggest the following:

• that you create an account (signed-in users generally get a bit more credance than anons) - see Wikipedia:Why create an account?. Once you've done that, drop me a line at my "talk" page at: User talk:Finlay McWalter
• write a small (we call 'em "Stub") article (say two paragraphs - where and what is Fettes, links to some famous old boys (e.g. Tony Blair), and the external link you had earlier
• append the following: {{stub}} - this alerts other wikipedians that you're aware the article is just a beginning, and invites them to help fix it up

Thanks -- Finlay McWalter 18:06, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Is it a private school, or a public school? john k 04:57, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Fettes is what we call in the UK, a "public" school. That means it is a private fee-paying school, not one in the state-sector which are usually referred to as state schools to make the distinction. --Samjappy 18:10, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

"Public school" is not used in proper Scottish usage for private schools. That's south of the Border. --MacRusgail 20:47, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

25 April - Post by Cuthbert: I call it a "Public school" as do many of my peer group at Fettes. At Fettes the sense of Englishness can be felt quite strongly especially in a "public school" sort of way, however we do have very strong ties with our Scottishness as well even if we aren't even from Britain. |Cuthbert

I changed the wording of the public school reference. The term, 'Public school,' is common usage for a private, often exclusive, fee-paying school in Britain. It is improper usage in Scotland, but despite having lived some of my life in that country, i have never been contradicted. we can safely call it common usage. Lots of Love, Sennett

Sorry, will you look at the 1868 act please! Fettes is not a "public school" in the Scottish sense (which is the same as the American), and south of the Border, the phrase is used for a handful of private schools. But what do you expect from a school which boycotts its country's education system (Standard Grades, and Highers) and supposedly sings England's national anthem, Jerusalem in chapel? --MacRusgail 17:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

The 1868 Act is unhelpful in this case, as it only includes England. It also does not in any way 'define' what is and what is not a public school, they simply seek to establish better governance and regulation of 9 great English schools. It misses out several schools which are undoubtedly great Public Schools, and was even expanded several times to include other schools. As publicschoolsguide.com says, "[the 1868 act schools] are sometimes cited as the only public schools, albeit mainly by those who attended them" (http://www.publicschools.co.uk/guide.htm)

So, as to the age-old argument about which schools are 'public schools' and which schools are simply 'independent', I will spare you all. It never gets resolved, as everyone thinks their own school is the most prestigious in christendom. 'Public school' is common usage in Scotland, even if it isn't technically correct, but I think the introduction as it stands is deals with the conumdrum well.

As to the latter half of your post, your tone doesn't do you justice. You probably know very well that there is no 'English National Anthem,' just as there is no Scottish national anthem. 'Jerusalem' is a common hymn, sung throughout the commonwealth. Why does singing it in Scotland offend you?

Concerning your snide asside about Fettes 'boycotting' the scottish education system, Come on! Are schools switching to the IB boycotting A Levels? Also, it is an inaccurate accusation, as Fettes offered [until the introduction of the IB] both Scottish Highers and A Levels to its pupils.

Yes, there are some very English aspects of Fettes [and what, pray, is wrong with that?] but the bulk of the pupils are Scottish and it has many elements which are very Scottish. So, stop being a silly billy - it won't win you any friends.

The second half of your post is also a massive nonsequitur. If you read it, it doesn't actually have anything to do with your point in the first half. Hmm... Psidogretro (talk) 00:42, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Flower of Scotland is the most widely accepted Scottish national anthem (whether people like it or not, and there's plenty that don't. The same can be said for God Save the Queen in England as well.) Fettes was set up to anglicise Scottish bourgeois youths. Sure, it may put a kilt on it sometimes, but you could come out of that place not knowing much at all about the country you were in. Ditto Loretto, Gordonstoun (probably worse) etc. --MacRusgail (talk) 22:36, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

"there are some very English aspects of Fettes [and what, pray, is wrong with that?]" - I think it's the fact that these are there partly to assimilate Scots into Anglo culture, and could be seen as a form of blatant quasi-colonialism. The fact is that they are trying to turn apples into pears. "Public school" is wrong in Scotland, but of course, if you're busy being turned into little quislings, you won't know that.

"'Jerusalem' is a common hymn, sung throughout the commonwealth. Why does singing it in Scotland offend you?" - Because you can't build it here in (quote) "England's green and pleasant land", any more than "Australia's yellow and arid land". --MacRusgail (talk) 15:38, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

There are English influences on Scottish culture just as there are Scottish influences on English culture. I don't have a problem with this, personally, but clearly you do. As a quasi-scot myself [born and educated there, parents lived there most of their lives], I like the fact that our two countries have squidged together so much. I like the fact that I can buy my favourite whisky and haggis in my local Tesco, just as I like the fact that I can speak English in Scotland and buy Hereford cider. I could give other examples. What is wrong with this kind of cultural assimilation? I mean, it's quite clear that Scotland is and will remain unique. It's character isnt going anywhere, is it? It'll still be the same fantastic place in 100 years' time. And by the way, don't give me the Imperialism lecture: we both know that the scots matched the english as empire builders, back in the day.

As I believe I mentioned, 'Public School' isnt technically correct usage in Scotland. I did say, and I stand by this, that it is COMMON usage. As for comparing my acknowlegement of this fact to that of a Nazi collaborator, I can only say Crikey, you've really got a skewed view of right and wrong...

Here are a couple of sources which refer to Fettes as a 'Public School.' Sorry they aren't more Scottish, but there's a BBC one there [they tend to use the expression 'Independent School'] and a Scotsman. Not conclusive, I know, but hey.

• http://www.scotsman.com/medialeisure/Agency-helps-Fettes-blend-hitech.2676935.jp
• http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/sceptred_isle/page/258.shtml?question=258
• http://www.btinternet.com/~akme/dancona.html
• http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-10335573_ITM

Come on. simply the word 'England' in a hymn sung in Scotland is offensive? You may not be aware of this, but the term England was used in days gone by to refer to the whole of the British Isles. I think it's called a synecdoche. It's not belittling Scotland, it's simply an archaic mode of expression. Don't forget, Blake was not exactly a modern poet! Psidogretro (talk) 22:16, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

There are influences, and then there are attempts to help get rid of someone's culture. The Scots were indeed involved in the British Empire up to their necks. However, they didn't found that Empire, and it did help to be an Anglo to get anywhere in it. Why are you so keen for Scottish culture to be wiped out and replaced with a culture which is often not any more superior? If you don't know why Jerusalem is not appropriate, they've obviously done a good job brainwashing you. (Besides which it's become a travesty of everything the late great William Blake actually stood for - e.g. a republic. Blake was a genius, and very modern for his time, full of revolutionary ideas.). --MacRusgail (talk) 22:31, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

"There are influences, and then there are attempts to help get rid of someone's culture."

Can you give any examples of either?

"and it did help to be an Anglo to get anywhere in it."

ooh, I dunno. There were more than the fair share of Macpeople administering and soldiering for the empire.

Ah, you misunderstand me. I don't want Scottish culture to be 'wiped out', neither do I think English culture to be superior. I just haven't got a problem with Scottish culture filtering south or English culture filtering north. I mean, it can only have an enriching effect on both, don't you think?

As for Blake, I'm speaking from a position of some ignorance as I'm not expert on his writings. I'm not sure that Blake was ahead of his time: this notion of Liberal republicanism/constitutionalism was hardly new. As for Jerusalem, it is not about Royalty or politics. It's about taking a good long look in the mirror before proclaiming oneself to be a godly and righteous society. It sets my teeth on edge slightly when people claim it as a patriotic song, as it most certainly isn't. If anything, it's a diatribe against the myth of English perfection and superiority. That was my interpretation, anyway. What do you think?

and yeah, blah blah, Wikipedia isnt a messageboard but it'd be interesting to hear your opinions as you're clearly something of a Blake scholar :) Psidogretro (talk) 00:11, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not a Blake scholar, I'm just someone who's read his stuff (other than "Rose thou art Sick", "Jerusalem" and "The Tyger") Blake was indeed ahead of his time in certain things. Anyway, it is not "filtration", it is a form of colonialism. The British establishment set up such schools in Africa and India with the express intent of destroying the pupils culture and turning them into loyal Anglos. And from talking to people who went to Fettes (I've known a few), this is exactly what Fettes is, in a Scottish context. Jerusalem has a great tune, but it's neither appropriate to Scotland, not appropriate to be used in such a manner - i.e. supporting High Toryism. --MacRusgail (talk) 18:18, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you, there. Fettes is a Scottish school, through and through. Yes, it has some english aspects, mainly due to its association with the Scottish aristocracy [who, much like the Irish, Welsh, Native Indian etc aristocracies, are very Anglicised] but it also has some very Scottish aspects. Burns's Night is celebrated almost religiously, Tartan kilts are part of the uniform, it uses its location in Scotland and Edinburgh [two unspeakably beautiful places] as a selling point, the chapel [whilst pretending to be non-denominational] is to all extents and purposes Presbyterian, the Scottish curriculum was offered [until the introduction of the IB] at Higher level and is still offered at Standard Grade, highland evening dress is standard at formal occasions even though it is optional; I could go on. I don't think it is the bastion of englishness that it is made out to be, neither does it seek to destroy Scottish culture [as so so alarmingly put it :) ]. Saying Fettes must be english is like saying a city with a Macdonald's must be American. It simply has some English aspects.

As for 'the english establishment' set up such schools, I think you'll find the bulk of them were set up by Scotsmen [Fettes, Heriot's; Gordonstoun was established by a German etc]. I don't think you can point at everything that is a little English in the world and shout 'Imperialism'.

I'm not entirely sure that Jerusalem represents 'High Toryism', as you put it. The song is used at conferences across parties [especially the Glee Club. The phrase 'New Jerusalem' was used by Attlee in the 1945 election and he was one of the most radical British politicians in history] and by many non-partisan institutions such as the WI and the Proms. It is a British song, not an english one. The words just so happen to say 'England.' As I said, it was commonplace up until the mid 20th Century to refer to the whole of the British isles as 'England.' Psidogretro (talk) 15:12, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Fettes is Scottish is it? Its location is Scottish, the kilts and pipes may be, but that's all window dressing, because its original ethos was to destroy Scottish culture, something which it is still doing unconsciously. A friend tells me that his history teacher at that school refused to teach him Scottish history, and made a snide remark that Scotland never had any history. Said teacher was a Yorkshireman - in fact I'm told the majority of the staff come from only one country in the world (I don't mean the UK). The elites you mention were deliberately anglicised. The Highland chiefs after the Jacobite failure, were made to get their children educated at English private schools... Fettes is just a later equivalent moved north of the Border. As for Gordonstoun, Kurt Hahn was most of the way to being a fascist, and probably would have been, had he not been Jewish.

"It is a British song, not an english one. The words just so happen to say 'England." - Jerusalem is definitely an ENGLISH song. Blake himself would have said so. It's a song against the established church, and authority, a kind of mystical call to revolution. It's not about a bunch of plastic aristocrats readying their children to enter the civil service and the army.

Various cities round the world have American schools (called such), why can't a Scottish city have an English school? That's what it is. --MacRusgail (talk) 15:32, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Yup, Fettes is Scottish. Like I said, it has elements of both cultures, but it's Scottish. I'm not familiar with the event which you described. Certainly, when it came to A Level History coursework, many people chose to do something Scottish [even though this is unadvisable due to a lack of sources, especially if one is studying pre-jacobite Scotland]. Hmm. Never heard that story, so couldnt comment. I'm sure such anti-scottishness wouldn't have gone down well, so it must have been in jest. I mean, you can say a lot of things about Scotland, but 'lacking in history' it certainly is not.

I wouldnt say the elites of the days of empire were necessarily 'deliberately' anglicised. They more assimilated themselves into the dominant culture. As for clan chiefs being 'forced' to attend English schools, I've never heard of such a thing. Sources?

Hahaha. Kurt Hahn a Nazi. I'll have to remember that one.

I'm still not seeing where you're getting this 'the ultimate goal of the private school in scotland is to destroy scottish culture' stuff from. You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about this one... Can you give me some examples of attempts by Scottish independent schools to do such a thing?

Well, put simply, the American schools are an institution. They offer the American curriculum to foreign students, as well as children of Americans who live abroad, with a view to said children being educated in America. British schools are the same. There is no such institution, however, as an English school. A sizable minority of privately educated Scots attend Scottish universities.

Anyhoo, I'm really losing track of exactly what you're arguing about here. You think Fettes is english, right? And to have an english school in Scotland is offensive to you? Hmm. Psidogretro (talk) 22:36, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I didn't say that Kurt Hahn was a Nazi, only that he probably would have been one if he was a true blue gentile. I've no problem with an English school in Scotland, if it is openly so - anything else is colonialism, and wanton destruction of our culture. It is the local equivalent of the bush schools set up by the British Empire round the place. I find it offensive that a Scottish school has teachers that laugh at Scottish history, and mock Gaelic amongst other things, and bully pupils with Scottish accents. Not to mention molesting anybody from the neighbouring school who dares to take a short cut. That revolting CCF which is to more or less train up cannon fodder has a lot to answer for. To misquote The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie this school's aim is to indoctrinate not educate. The Empire is over, but Fettes doesn't seem to realise. --MacRusgail (talk) 23:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC) p.s. "They more assimilated themselves into the dominant culture" (cough) you really believe that don't you? How naive... p.p.s. "A-Level History"? Point proven.

I think you've got Kurt Hahn the wrong way round, old boy. He didn't have a particular problem with the concept of Hitler and the Nazis [in fact, he supported them in their early years] but he found himself disliking them [and actively campaigning against them] once he realised that they were a bunch of thugs.

Again, just how is a school like Fettes destroying Scottish culture?

Teachers bullying students with scottish accents and mocking Gaelic? Now you're just making stuff up! Come on! Most of the pupils at Fettes were scottish and a sizable chunk of them had accents. True, there was minor accent-related classism amongst the students [as one would find at any school. It was more to do with whether one had an accent or not, I.e. it was not exclusively anti-Scottish] but these students certainly weren't treated any differently by the staff. There were about a dozen Gaelic speakers in the school [which is not bad, seeing as there are only around 60 000 in Scotland] and two teachers who were able to teach it [to the best of my knowledge]. It wasnt a major subject [it isnt at many schools outside the Highlands and Islands as much due to lack of demand as lack of need to speak it], but it wasnt generally sneered at.

Loads of schools have a CCF. Just about every major public school, in fact. I really don't see what's wrong with it. In any case, at Fettes the CCF was optional: one could choose a number of other pursuits including extra prep time, music practice and community service. As for the claim that they are simply there to train cannon fodder, that may be true. However, CCFs are there to train officers, not soldiers [hence the public school connexion]. Most people who eventually sign up have been in the CCF or ACF, although you could argue that this is more because that person has been interested in a military career for some time and joined such an organisation because of that interest.

Ok then - how was my statement 'assimilated themselves into the dominant culture' not true of, say, the Rajas of India, or the Peerage of Ireland? Yes, it may be true that this was seen as the only way to get ahead, but my statement still stands, does it not?

Indoctrinate, not educate, eh? Well, if Fettes is anti-scottish, as you say, then you're talking rubbish. I left fettes with a great affection for Edinburgh and Scotland. I had little connexion with the place before I schooled there [asside from the odd holiday and being born in Glasgow]. I consider Scottish Country dancing to be superior to English Ballroom dancing, and I pursue this interest. I could give more examples. I don't feel indoctrinated. Your theory of this great, English, High-Tory conspiracy is very quaint, but it says more about your own prejudices than you realise :). Psidogretro (talk) 23:45, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Probably Kurt Hahn's dislike of the Nazis came down to the fact that he had Jewish ancestry, and would have suffered at their hands, given the chance. If he'd been a true blue gentile, I don't doubt he would have stayed over there, and done his bit for them. Probably taking the Hitler-Jugend out on camping trips. "Now you're just making stuff up!" - no, I'm not, I'm talking about what I've been told by a number of Scottish old Fettesians.

"how is a school like Fettes destroying Scottish culture?" - You obviously don't get it (or are taking the mick) so it's pretty clear that the technique's worked on you. The folk I know who've been to places like that either come out as mindless anglified bigmouths, or (if they can think for themselves) pretty alienated by its bizarre mindset.

Scottish culture isn't just about window dressing, like kilts and country dancing (or even militarised versions of piping) - it's a much broader thing. The Royal Family still plays at that game - don a kilt, and you become "Scottish". You don't - there's a lot more to it. That place has a bizarre form of doublethink, whereby teachers tell off pupils for Scotticisms and makes them sing the unofficial English national anthem, and then tells them to do the Eightsome Reel. Just like the Bush schools of the Empire. Eton and Harrow set up a class divide - no doubt about it, but the pupils at those establishments get taught about their own country, and won't be abused for doing English things (provided they're not too "plebby".)

"every major public school" - Most of the public schools in Edinburgh, such as the Royal High, and St Augustines do not have CCF. The private schools do, which is just a means of maintaining an outdated class structure within the British army - i.e. the privately educated as officers, and proles as privates - which is wrong, since the officers should be chosen on their skills, not their background. But then again, places like Fettes were never really there to encourage culture, so much as "Muscular Christianity" and running the Empire. --MacRusgail (talk) 15:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, my understanding of Kurt Hahn was that he initially supported the Nazis until he witnessed their violence and thuggery. Obviously, he would have come to blows with them eventually because of his Jewish ancestry but his main beef with them was that they were violent. I may be wrong. I'll do some reading :)

I did leave Fettes pretty alienated, come to think of it. I certainly wasn't happy there. I didn't lap up the whole public school thing like many did. I'm not saying that the attitudes in these places isn't out-dated or a little silly, I'm merely saying that I don't see how the presence of a School in scotland which has some english attributes is a threat to the dominant culture of the Scots.

Well, Jerusalem was sung as a hymn rather than as a school song. The Fettes hymn book was simply a collection of the most popular and rousing numbers in the English Hymnal. Admittedly, as the Church of Scotland suggested, changing the word 'England' to 'Albion' might be more appropriate. However, I maintain that Jerusalem isn't a nationalist hymn - it is effacing of England, it points out her faults and her shortcomings, rather than championing her virtues as one would expect a national anthem to do. It does have associations with English Nationalism, though, I grant you.

Your assertion that public schoolboys are officers and comp boys are soldiers may be statistically true, but today's army are far more interested in recruiting effective officers than simply gentlemen. In fact, it's official MOD policy to consider character before education when recruiting and promoting. This point, however, goes to the root of a greater problem: a lack of ideal social mobility in this country. 32% of MPs are public-schoolboys, and 60% of peers. This will change, though, now that universities and employers are coming round to the fact that success at a public school says far less about your character than success at a state school [where pupils dont have everything handed to them on a plate, and often not as encouraged and motivated]. Dont forget that the leaders of today were born to a generation who thought the Empire was still a relavent force in the British social order, an epoch in which the very victorian attitudes so prevalent in Public Schools still held some water. Things like this take time to flush out of the system, so just you wait, old boy - it'll all change soon.

It is rare for state schools to have a CCF because there would be considerable overlap between those and the local ACF [which are based on regions and regiments, rather than schools]. In public schools, because of the hours worked and their typical 'campus' life, it would be tricky for pupils to attend ACFs outside of school. Also, snobbery works both ways - to people in university, I'm often resented as 'that posh guy' even though I do little to promote myself as bourgoeis. This kind of reverse snobbery is also responsible for the lack of social mobility in this country: I frequently hear people say 'oh I could never be a lawyer/army officer/doctor etc. That's for posh people.' People's own perceptions of themselves and their appropriate rolls in society do more to create a class barrier than the attitudes of the establishment. Psidogretro (talk) 20:17, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism

Is the stuff in the 'Culture and Atmosphere' section vandalism? ZephyrAnycon 21:14, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

To be honest I doubt it is. I go to a private school as well and there is often articles in the press about friction between us and local state school. The press seem to love scandels from 'posh' schools. Whether or not it is included in the article is debatable. --coolmark18 20:23, 10 April 2006 (GMT)

As a pupil at Fettes I think I can confirm the previous point of view. There is very little tension whatsoever: there have been a few minor incidents over the past five years I've been in attendance, but no more than a dozen and none at all serious. Furthermore, I would say the tension exists only within "select" groups at each school. On the whole, relations are very good and, if not close, peaceable. - Scuddworthy 15:24, 17 April 2006 (GMT)

I'm a former fettes pupil (left 1998) and I have still have siblings there. I also disagree with the comments about drug and alchohol use. Obviously all teenagers misbehave, but from speaking to friends who attended other schools, I think it's simply not true that Fettes has a problem on this front. [unsigned]

The article is currently one-sided. For example, the comments about the use of "public school" in Scotland have been removed, and it has been turned into a glowing advert for the place. A number of incidents have got in the press and the teacher hoax (I don't know if she claimed leukaemia, but it was certainly some terminal illness) certainly did.

I am told by people who used to go to Broughton High School that some of them would be chased or attacked while taking a short cut across Fettes' grounds. It obviously upset the school, since they've put up razor wire at the Ferry Road end. Obviously they don't like Piltonites!

Remember folks - this is a two sided article. Not advertising copy. Fettes comes in for a lot of criticism, both in the press, and within Edinburgh. --MacRusgail 19:01, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

OK..but do you have any evidence to support your statement implying drug and alcohol abuse has occured since 2002? The comments above suggest that evidence does not exist. Dormskirk 19 February 2007

I think a mention of the recent Youtube video should also get a mention. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MacRusgail (talk • contribs) 17:20, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

an archaic tradition?

I take issue with the claim that calling male teachers 'Sir' is archaic or even slightly old fashioned. In most schools in the US, UK and the Commonwealth, as a mark of respect, teachers are addressed as 'Sir, 'Ma'am' in US English or 'Miss' in British English, although this does not imply unmarried status and is used for both spinsters and married women. In any case, the phrase 'Archaic' sounds derogatory and including such reference to a common mark of respect in a paragraph about class snobbery is incorrect, not NPOV and simply unacceptable. I have modified this paragraph. Sennett

obit?

"The school actually has his Who's Who entry copied and framed in one of its main corridors." where? i've never seen it.

It is not is Who's who entry it is an entry from newspaper as an obituary as seen in the Times or the telegraph. It is next to what was the careers office along the corridor leading to the sports pitches. It is quite high up about six feet off the floor. In eight years there I never took the time to read it but I know where it is

Sean Connery

Sean Connery, who was the original actor to portray James Bond in the cinema, worked as a milkman's delivery boy in his youth. One of the places on his route is said to have been Fettes College - Definitely needs a citation; the Sean Connery article repeats this 'fact', also uncited. Given that he was from Fountainbridge, it must have been a helluva big milk round. --duncan 19:02, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Given the amount of people in this town who claimed to have had Sean Connery deliver their milk, he must have been the world's most hard-working milkman. Lurker ^oi! 18:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Alumni

I've removed most of the names from the article - basically, anyone without a linked article to corroborate their existence or plausibility. It's a bit drastic, but a lot of nonsense was creeping in... and our net of notability is broad enough that if someone was significant enough to be noted as a former pupil, they're probably notable enough for an article. Shimgray | talk | 23:27, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Shimgray, I added a lot of names to the list a few weeks ago. most were taken from the Famous Alumni list on the Fettes website. I dont know what you removed, but if you could cross-reference the old list with the alumni list on the website, and re-add the serious ones, that would be lovely. Psidogretro 18:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

___________________WILL_____________________

William Fettes's will - why has this been removed? -it is a current political issue regarding the use of charitable status and also an ongoing legal/ethical point on how terms of wills may be adjusted in view of historical developments since the death of the will writer. As an ex fettesian I can assure you that the associated life style costs in order to socially mix mean that even within the small number of scholarship/bursaries the number of individuals attending who do not come from privileged backgrounds is miniscule. (Emily blair 20:21, 23 January 2007 (UTC)) Emily Blair.

Scott MacLennan - can somebody please explain why a boy who has done nothing yet with his life other than play age group international cricket and a varsity rugby match is in the famous former pupils section? If he is included then surely we should include every other pupil who has played age group international sport (of which there must be hundreds), along with the entire squad of the side that finished runners up in the Scottish Schools Rugby Cup. Unsigned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.215.222.20 (talk) 23:04, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Culture and Atmosphere

This section doesn't sound very encyclopaedic. I suggest taking some of this information and adding it to the history section, as simple lists of information are not highly regarded on Wikipedia. Lurker ^oi! 18:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Eton of the North

The first non-wiki site to come up in google under "Eton of the north" is a school in Lancashire. I grant that people at Fettes seem to use the term ... but perhaps that could go under an Aspiration section; Eton is a world famous private school, whereas few people even in Scotland have heard of Fettes. Usage of this term is obviously very rare, and I've failed to find a non weasel word source which employs the phrase Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 19:30, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Disagree. Fettes has become well known since Tony Blair.--MacRusgail 17:38, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Says who? I bet you anything that 95% + of people even in Scotland have never heard of it. And I bet more people have heard of Glasgow High, Jordanhill, Hillhead, just because these places are associated with Rugby grounds. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 17:49, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I definitely would not put the figure that high. It is extremely well known in Edinburgh, and there are even a few cultural references. Scotland the What refer to it in one of their songs for example. Although to be fair, many people have heard of it for the wrong reasons. Articles talking about Tony Blair and education often mention Fettes for example. --MacRusgail 19:46, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

That might be case back in March. In fact, I just googled "Eton of the North" --- Fettes was named in every single one of top 5 results, and none of them from Wiki. TheAsianGURU 06:27, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

It's certainly used, but is a horrible provincial phrase. Scotland is not "the north" - it is in a different country! --MacRusgail 14:28, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to argue that scotland is "the north", because according to everyone, it's not a seperate county, it only has a certain amount of devolution. the country as a whole is the United Kindom, and as scotland is almost the top (northern) half, i believe that scotland is the north. therefore, Fettes can justly be called the "Eton of the North", as said by TheAsianGURU. Ashe613 14:42, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I hear you. Since I spent many years in Scotland as a child (as I consider myself a “1/4 Scotsman” lol), I understand your POV (as well as many ppl's POV in Scotland). Not to get into politics of all these, but it’s very difficult to explain the situation to, for example, an American or a Japanese or even a Canadian.

PS: I just googled “Eton of the North" again --- Fettes were still the top 5 excluding results from Wik or Google Books. TheAsianGURU (talk) 22:11, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Scotland always has been another country - just like Manchukuo was never Japanese. Albeit one which does not rule itself. I'm part French, but I don't interfere in French politics.--MacRusgail (talk) 23:15, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Since when I "interfered with Scottish Politics"? Wait, where am I? This is the wiki page of a school! NOT The Politics of Scotland! TheAsianGURU (talk) 00:02, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Since you claimed it was a "region". I know Fettes was set up to churn out plastic Englishmen, but the country it is in is not a shire of England. --MacRusgail (talk) 00:35, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Look buddy, I didn't invent this term. My intention is clear --- I want to defend this term as it applies to Fettes. (as a nickname, title or whatever) In fact, I would still defend the term if it was "Eton of the Overseas." TheAsianGURU (talk) 00:48, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Apart from the fact that Fettes isn't much like Eton (if it ever was), the provincial British nickname "Eton of the North" shows that it always has been a Trojan Horse in this country. --MacRusgail (talk) 20:51, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Scotland is another country. Per Oxford (Concise, but I refuse to pay hundreds of pounds for the full thing): "a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory". Scotland is unarguably a nation (unique culture, heritage, dialect and language) and certainly has its own government. Angus Lepper^{(T, C, D)} 23:24, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

This term is spurious. Since March sources have been taking it from aspirational websites regarding it with authority; mostly it seems to be an attempt by English authors to place Blair's background and hence the school into a context comprehensible in their system of cultural references. Yet I can find a school in Lancashire and a school in Manchester (both, unlike Edinburgh, are in what in the UK is called "the North") also claiming that title. That it's commonly called that is a self-promoting vanity and nonsense to boot. And ... lol ... my friend who went to Gordonstoun claims it is called "the Scottish Eton" (though I see the 110 hits for that are mostly about Fettes). What good anglophile, after all, wouldn't want to see their school as some kind of equivalent to the British imperialist finishing school par excellence?! Sure ... and Glasgow is the "Scottish Rome" ... James Thin is the "Scottish Borders" ... Andy Murray is the "Scottish Sampras" ... Aiden McGeady is the "Scottish Ronaldinho". Could go on. Regards, Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 00:26, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree that it's more like a "self promo" term. It's kinda sad, no matter what, it's not Eton. Besides, why do you wanna be Eton, why can't you be yourself?! Well, I guess Eton and Harrow are known globally, so it's much easier to market. Anyway, I do hope that this term goes away as Blair's influence drops. TheAsianGURU (talk) 07:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I have heard the term "Eton of the North" used for Fettes, rather like Edinburgh is the "Athens of the North". However, such comparisons reek of lazy journalism, e.g. "X is the new Y" and "Kelman is the Glaswegian Irvine Welsh" (!). They're stupid and inaccurate. Fettes has more in common with Rugby school, in its origins and history than Eton anyway. As an example of the ludricrousness of such nicknames, I offer you the following riddle - "If Edinburgh is the 'Athens of the North', and Dunedin is the 'Edinburgh of the South', what is Dunedin's relationship to Athens?"--MacRusgail (talk) 18:22, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

How many times I have to point out that people need to stop referring that name to Fettes. It's NOT a matter of issues between "Scotland vs England." As soon as people stop using that name, it will go away just like everything else. For now, even The Scotsman is using that name, so maybe we should just drop it & move on? If one day, this name goes away, so will this section of the article. TheAsianGURU (talk) 22:39, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Re my recent edits, please see discussion below - 'Eton of the North & other schools'. hippo43 (talk) 00:20, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Comical editing patterns

Noremacnomis seems to be reverting/making changes, then making a bunch of minor changes in the hope his major changes don't get noticed. On a scale of one to ten, how thick does he think we are? Come on Noremacnomis, this is a well-known tactic and will not escape notice! Lurker ^oi! 18:41, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Academic results

It makes little sense to delete just two years of academic results. It would be better to delete all the academic results - but that just leaves the material about a former headmaster, drugs etc. Surely leaving the academic results in gives a bit more balance? Dormskirk 21:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

No it doesn't leave any "balance". What you put in was basically advertising. My problem is that I know a little too much about how these schools massage their exam figures. For one, they poach all the bright pupils from the state sector to boost the figures, and give them scholarships, and for another, they exclude certain people from sitting exams (usually the rich, thick ones who pay the fees!)--MacRusgail 11:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

OK. My point now is basically just a drafting point: taking your comment at face value the same point could apply to the other results listed. How about the following:

• leave the 1998 & 1999 comments as drafted
• amend the 2001 comment to read "In 2001 Fettes was declared "Scottish School of the year" by the Sunday Times"
• delete the comments for 2002, 2003 and 2004
• Insert a new comment "Fettes is regularly placed first in the list of Scottish Independent Schools by the Sunday Times"

In column inches this would be less "advertising" than currently appears. Dormskirk 20:37, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Does anybody else have any views on this? Dormskirk 14:46, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it is probably better to compare it with other Scottish private schools. The figures as per Scottish schools in general don't really take into consideration some of the tactics that private schools use to boost their figures.--MacRusgail 15:28, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Are you comfortable therefore, for this purpose, that independent schools and private shools are roughly the same thing, and we can therefore state that "Fettes is regularly placed first in the list of Scottish Independent Schools by the Sunday Times"? Dormskirk 15:44, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay - just as long as the whole article doesn't become too "gushing". --MacRusgail 16:04, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I will amend. Dormskirk 16:10, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Please cite sources

The extract from Sir William Fettes' will was tagged as needing a source since March. None was provided, so the extract was removed. Do not reinstate this material without adding a citation. Lurker (talk · contribs) 16:43, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Assess

An important Scottish school with a consistent top five ranking in the league tables. The alumni include Tony Blair and three senior members of the British Cabinet (Chancellors of the Exchequer and Foreign Secretaries.) A good start at referencing. Very close to a B but rather too many lists rather than prose sections. Dahliarose 09:50, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Category

Perhaps we ought get a category for Old Fettesians? --Counter-revolutionary 21:12, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

there is one: Category:Fettes alumni Dormskirk 22:04, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah, surely Old F.... is better? Thanks anyhow, --Counter-revolutionary 02:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree that Category:Old Fettesians would be more correct. It does not seem to be possible to move categories on wiki so the only way to do this is to set up the new category and re-categorise all the relevant biographies. I am happy to try this Dormskirk (talk) 13:42, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

It can be moved, but due to the wonders of wikipedia, it is also a fairly bureaucratic process. You need to have a poll on the page, or take it to "categories to be moved". --MacRusgail (talk) 13:53, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for this MacRusgail. I have now re-categorised all the relevant biographies. Hopefully an administrator will delete the old category: I have requested this is on its talk page Dormskirk (talk) 14:51, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Recentism in History section

There seems to be a quite distinct bias towards fairly non-notable (by the scope of this article) but recent events towards the end of the History section. I'd propose simply removing it, beginning at "In 2002...", bearing in mind that whilst there are news citations provided, the guideline given in WP:NOTE is "A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." (emphasis mine) Thoughts? Angus Lepper^{(T, C, D)} 23:18, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

"Recentism" isn't a proper word. Surely there's a better term for it. --MacRusgail (talk) 16:50, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

It may not be listed in many dictionaries; nor will many computer science jargon terms — but I'll still use them in context. Since the term has currency in Wikipedia, the use of the term is fine. However, the term used is irrelevant, particularly as my actual message (outside of the header) gave a description of what I meant, for the sake of those who hadn't encountered it before. Do you have any comment on my actual proposal, rather than a meta-discussion on how I chose to couch it? Angus Lepper^{(T, C, D)} 16:59, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

It's a horrible, and recent neologism, at best. Surely there must be a better term. There is one that's based on a French word, but I can't remember it just now. --MacRusgail (talk) 16:59, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

If you think there is too much material about recent events, shorten it, rather than removing all reference to events which took place after 2002. Lurker (said · done) 15:48, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

For what it is worth, I am not aware that any of the events quoted (either in 2002 or 2007) received coverage in more than one publication - if that is relevant in determining whether the coverage was significant Dormskirk (talk) 23:42, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

It's not that there is too much recent material—it's that [I feel that] an undue bias is being placed upon the notability of events simply because they are recent. I could not find evidence of any wide coverage of the events in question, and this is a criterion for notability. Angus Lepper^{(T, C, D)} 19:02, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

'Eton of the North' & other schools

Western Province posted this (unsigned) comment on my talk page - I’ll address it here.

“When the press, and, indeed, Tatler's School Guide, refer to Fettes as the "Eton of the North" they're complementing the school's exceedingly strong reputation. This is not something to shy away from. Therefore, even if you didn't attend Fettes, as a proud Scotsman, you should be flattered that our country hosts one of the finest Public Schools in the UK. As far as I see it, who are you to decide what Fettes post on their page? You clearly have no attachment to the school, only resentment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Western Province (talk • contribs) 18:03, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

I’m not sure where to start with this.

I don’t really care what Tatler’s School Guide says - are they an authority on schools? The press has, as far as I can tell, only used this term about Fettes since Tony Blair became well-known. All the sources listed in this article are from the last few years. I agree with MacRusgail, above, that this is probably lazy journalism. ‘In recent years’ seems accurate.

It has also clearly been used about several other schools. A quick Google search for ‘“Eton of the North” -Fettes’ delivers Sedbergh, Glenalmond College, Worksop College, Fordyce Academy…

I made no comment about Fettes’ reputation. Your opinion that “they're complementing the school's exceedingly strong reputation” is original research.

My edits have nothing to do with resentment. You have no idea whether I’m a ‘proud Scotsman’ or what school/s I have an attachment to. Please keep your patronising comments that I ‘should be flattered …’ to yourself.

You ask “who are you to decide what Fettes post on their page?” This isn’t Fettes’ page. It’s an encyclopedia which can be edited by anyone. Fettes can post whatever they like on their own web pages.

Your comments here and on your own talk page (your advice to MacRusgail “why don't you leave the "editing" to the school and to those who have a true understanding of the place.”) suggest you might benefit from reading some Wikipedia policies. Your edits, such as removing some unflattering episodes from this article, suggest that you are not approaching this from an NPOV. hippo43 (talk) 22:16, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

As a proud Scotsman, I resent being referred to as "the north". Scotland has moved on from that provincial rubbish. If it is so good, it should stand on its own merits. It's also not a public school, because it's not in England.

I suspect from the edits, that Western Province is either an employee of the school or an alumnus. Why else we would s/he put so much effort into preserving its good reputation. The leukemia story should be put back. --MacRusgail (talk) 21:58, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

The replies are non-sequential... but anyway. It is clear that Western Province has a Conflict of Interest which disallows him/her from approaching this from a neutral angle.

This is not Fettes' page - I repeat, Fettes College does not OWN this page. They have their own website. Wikipedia is a public resource, and is entitled to present a warts and all article on this school (as long as properly referenced of course.--MacRusgail (talk) 15:48, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

As to the user above who mentions various different schools in relation to the title "Eton of the North", complete misunderstanding. Fettes is it, the links to the sources are on it's main Wiki page, Western Province is in no way conflicted in his interests, just putting the record straight. It is an excellent, First XI according to Sloane and certainly the strongest in Scotland -shame about the Sixth Form centre though, shame people here wish to demean and belittle its significance though. (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.6.124.130 (talk) 17:13, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you understand what you mean, by a conflict of interest here (unless of course, you are Western Province...)... it means that WP seems to be intent on creating a one-sided article, no doubt because of a close link with the place. As for its exam results, these are artificially inflated by the simple tactic that Fettes (like other Scottish private schools) offers scholarships to brighter children, who can't afford the standard school fees.--MacRusgail (talk) 18:02, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

No misunderstanding at all. I'm well aware that this term has caught on among the press. My edits are just pointing out that this has only been in recent years and it is a term which has been widely applied to other schools. If I have to, I can very easily supply numerous sources to illustrate this. hippo43 (talk) 18:21, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

If you see one of my recent edits, I include references. Unfortunately I can't find too many for Gordonstoun, but Glenalmond, Giggleswick, and Sedbergh have all had the name.--MacRusgail (talk) 00:08, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Cleaned up the sentence and added sources. Looks a bit daft with so many references, so feel free to take a couple out. hippo43 (talk) 00:24, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I gave up!! This is getting really funny~ At first, I wanted to defend Fettes with the “nickname” because it’s the most commonly referred to school in Scotland (by that name). But now, after seeing the edit wars & discussions that you guys have, I changed my mind & I am no longer interested. I just wanna stand on the sideline & watch. Some of you are obviously patriotic Scotsman (my thumbs up to you), some of you edit with agendas, (you know who you are ;)) that wanna put this name else where. I no longer care what & where this “nickname” ends up. But I do wanna say, if I was living in the UK, I would Patent this phrase ASAP. (who knows, maybe it already is.) Peace~ TheAsianGURU (talk) 00:39, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I have to admit that up til recently I had only heard "Eton of the North"used for Fettes, but then I saw it used for Gordonstoun in a newspaper. I don't know why it is wrong to point this out. Besides which the nickname is provincial, not patriotic. Scotland is a country, not the north of England.--MacRusgail (talk) 12

32, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Transition

I was startled to read that Sir William Fettes intended to establish a school for poor children and orphans. How and when did Fettes become fee-paying, please (and such high fees, too)? The Fettes website doesn't mention poor children or orphans. Misterhig (talk) 15:00, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, it wouldn't! This is not an uncommon origin for private schools. See here for starters.--MacRusgail (talk) 16:12, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Druggies

I'm well aware that there's a drugs scandal on the go just now there. Can I suggest that we keep things in perspective. All schools have drug problems, it's just that in this case, like that of Gordonstoun particularly, as a posh school, it hits the headlines more often than it would in a not so posh one. I'm sure it happens as often at Broughton High School, just over the road - just that the papers can't be bothered writing on it.

The article should reflect the fact that there are periodic problems with drugs (cannabis mostly, which is hardly heroin), but we should not give over a huge chunk of the article to the ongoing issue.--MacRusgail (talk) 21:41, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Category:Old Fettesians rename

At present there is a discussion relating to the renaming of Category:Old Fettesians. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at this discussion page. Please note that the discussion is not a majority vote so contributions should be based on Wikipedia policies and independent sources. Cjc13 (talk) 12:59, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Fettes College ("The School for spies?") and recruitment by the Intelligence Services

Extracted " Historically the school environment was harsh and strictly disciplinarian hence Fettes College provided a fertile recruitment ground for the military officer corps and many boys went on to serve in the Colonial Service and Intelligence Service overseas. "

This was added to the main article but was deleted by Betty Logan as unsourced. Intelligence information by it's very nature is always unsourced. But the facts exist and remain. Those in the know would know and those not in the know would not know.86.132.241.46 (talk) 11:47, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Was there done that - call me an insider in the know! *Ian Fleming was no fool there must have been something in the cupboard at Fettes for him to base his James Bond character there!

Rumours at the school at the time was the A. Chenevix-Trench and a number of other Housemasters were MI6 recruiters. The School Library at the time was awash with books on Espionage, Heroism, Military heroes and military strategy etc. As a beside it also house the complete collection of the James Bond novels by Ian Fleming and autographed by the author himself. Hence it should come as no surprise to anyone that legend has it that James Bond himself was a former old boy. The School List however has no mention of a James Bond or his father Andrew Bond as attending, but maybe they were never meant to be on the School List anyway?

As per Wikipedia:Verifiability, "Even if you're sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it". Therefore I will be removing it again, and I would appreciate it if you don't restore it without complying with Wikipedia's policies. Betty Logan (talk) 12:15, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

To Betty Logan::

Did you attend Fettes College? Have you ever worked for the Intelligence Service? Have you ever been in the military? Have you ever been in the Diplomatic Service? Have you ever been in the Fettes School Library?

If your answer is no to all the above questions then you ought to stop undoing my edits. 86.132.241.46 (talk) 12:36, 18 August 2013 (UTC) You ought to ask MI6 if they recruited from Fettes College and or the MOD if this is true? Maybe you ought to go to Edinburgh and visit Fettes College yourself and have a look at the books in the library or ask the School Librarian?

It is verified by me "was there done that" until anyone challenges what I said then it should stand.

In any case the existing following para in the article mention a report by Paul Foot about corparal punishment and the use of the cane at the school by any means this was a harsh environment at the time. 86.132.241.46 (talk) 12:50, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

If you go to the talk pages of this author and of the two related topics on Fettes College and on James Bond you could easily determine on the balance of probabilities if what is claimed could be factual or not. The material being put forward would never in any case be allowed to be sourced because by its very nature.

This is nothing compared to the scale of leaks from the Bradley Manning and WikiLeaks but Fettes College used to be well know among the local residents who lived in the surrounding areas near the college as "The School of Spies". The school used to have its own shooting range and its own underground Armoury locked by heavy steel doors and containing everything from small arms pistols to heavy sub-machine guns. The College also had its own Navy, Air Force and Army Cadet Force. In the past many a former officer in the Anglo American Intelligence services was educated there. —

This may well be true, but it can't be included in the article unless there is a reliable source. If it is the kind of information which by its nature "cannot be allowed to be sourced" then it still cannot be included. -- Alarics (talk) 18:18, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

My school also had (and still has) a shooting range, armoury (with obvious steel doors) which contained a full range of arms. It also had an active cadet service for Army, Navy and Air cadets. The school prospectus and annual magazines used to refer to such in glowing terms. If you wish to add the information, then the sources will not be too difficult to come by. (Incidentally, along side the reference books and works of classic fiction, the library also contained various military/strategy/heroism books, all of which were of interest to the populous, especially those who went into the forces. I strongly doubt whether Fettes was unique in having the same facilities as many other public schools. - SchroCat (talk) 19:29, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Main Careers of Fettes pupils

I have heard it said that Fettes has been a good source of Military officers and many of the former pupils end up in the military or the Diplomatic Service or in politics ? Can someone please comment on this? I know the last Labour Prime Minister Tony Blair was a boarder for five years at Fettes College , at Arniston House (which later became an all-girl boarding house) under Housemaster "Bob" Roberts MA(Cantab) who then went on to be Headmaster at Shrewsbury College? 109.156.205.111 (talk) 13:33, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be equally true of many "top" schools? What is it that you want to change in the article? Isn't it sufficiently apparent from the "Notable Old Fettesians" section of the article what kind of people have been educated there? -- Alarics (talk) 13:50, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

A lot of them end up as judges and lawyers, which is coincidentally what their dads do.--MacRùsgail (talk) 16:38, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

The shills are back in town

Have you noticed that the article is back to exam pass rates (which are pauchled by private schools anyway) and not about scandals? -MacRùsgail (talk) 10:27, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Advert tag

Has been tagged. Could have an interesting section on the school's history, but instead resorts to advertising. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.18.220 (talk) 16:42, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Drive-by tagging is unhelpful - please feel free to improve the article if there are problems with it. I have added an extra paragraph to the history myself to get things going. Dormskirk (talk) 22:43, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

I have added quite a bit more. Hopefully this is now sufficiently interesting and encyclopedic. Dormskirk (talk) 17:27, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

Alumni POV

"Fettes College has produced many judges, lawyers, diplomats, military officers and politicians. In sport, its most notable alumni are on the rugby pitch. Four Old Fettesians have won the Victoria Cross and one the George Cross."

So basically all this article talks about is military, law and government employees. Why not discuss scientists (one of whom won the FRICKING NOBEL PRIZE!!!), writers, musicians etc?! --2A01:4C8:141A:89CD:1:1:E972:5E99 (talk) 21:19, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

I have added "persons from academia" to the list and would be happy to see it amended further. Dormskirk (talk) 22:04, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

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