Wikipedia:Peer review/Fantasy/archive1

Fantasy

With an eye toward featured article status. My only real remaining concern is the lack of nonfiction citations, but, as I've stated already on the article's talkpage, I'm not convinced that needs to be too major an issue. The article does cite literally dozens of examples of the fantasy genre already, while giving a history of the influences on the modern genre is to a large degree simply collating those influences—all of which have their own articles already—and placing them in the modern genre's perspective. Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions. Binabik80 01:21, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There's a lot to cover in this category and this looks like a good start. It does seem a little western-oriented, however. Perhaps you could add some material on Chinese, Indian, and other fantasy beliefs? Sexual fantasy isn't listed, and I don't see Walter Mitty mentioned. There's also the psychological aspects of fantasy, such as at what age a child becomes able to distinguish between fantasy and reality, childhood fantasy friends, the relation of fantasy with dreams, and even why we fantasize so much. :) Finally a suitable image at the top would help draw in the reader. — RJH 03:04, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at Eastern genres sounds pretty intriguing--I'm pretty much totally unfamiliar with Eastern lit, though I'm sure Japan, for instance, has a vibrant fantasy lit. Some of the other stuff, though, I think would be more appropriate to fantasy (psychology)—which does indeed mention Walter Mitty—than an article on the speculative fiction genre of fantasy. Looking at the intro section again, though, how can see how it might not hurt to make that more explicit upfront. Binabik80 04:07, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That works, although the Fantasy (psychology) page looks pretty paltry at the moment. Maybe it'll grow later.... Thanks. — RJH 19:23, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think that in order for this article to be comprehensive, it needs to take a much broader look at the subject. In particular, I'm thinking of measures of popularity, literary critisism (which there must be a vast amount of), and a more detailed discussion of the various media in which fantasy themes are developed. Regarding references, I can tell you now that you simply must have substantial references to pass an FAC vote. - Bryan is Bantman 03:56, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

Fair enough. I found several books online about the theory and criticism of fantasy that I'll be ordering in to take a look at. I'm also going to take a good look at crime fiction, which seems to be the only featured article on a fiction genre (or at least, the only one I've found so far). Binabik80 14:31, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Lead needs expantion. References need adding. Sections can be expanded from subarticles, the article is below 32kb and the one sentence+list sections look bad. There are missing sections in media: 'Fantasy computer games', 'Fantasy TV series'. Fantasy film definetly needs a note on anime. A note on fantasy in theater and such would be welcome as well. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 16:25, 6 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with any discussion of a genre is that, rather like the unscientific process that led to the creation of many modern countries, the temptation is to treat the resulting content as homogenous, whereas it is peopled by so many different groups that the single label is arbitrary. You refer the question of whether "Star Wars" is SF, science fantasy or fantasy. Is it possible, or indeed desirable, to come up with a quantitative formula that classifies a given work by the relative percentages of content that meet defined criteria? Surely, the better question is not how we should label them, but whether the Lucas-inspired films, novels, games, etc. are any good. Hence, although this is a brave effort at encapsulating what advertisers currently lump together as fantasy for marketing purposes, I don't think it gets to grips with what "fantasy" really is. Obviously, I can't write a long piece here but let us briefly consider the distinction between narrative and subtext. You correctly refer to early mythology as a prototype for religion. People deify forces they cannot explain in rational terms but, by externalising their fears and aspirations, they make a god out of thunder and debate whether this manifestation is a force for good (or not). Such texts allow people to construct archetypes and, through the use of metaphor, to explore the extent and implications of imperfectly understood phenomena within their own cultures. So Beowulf is an examination of the hero archetype played against the backdrop of a culture where the people had to face their fears of unknown lands and beasts on a daily basis while confronting a religious conversion from paganism to Christianity. The qualities of leadership and political awareness that Beowulf displays would have been powerful contributions to the contemporary discourse on managing change because they are cloaked in a seductive narrative involving scary monsters. Yet, even the monsters are anthropomorphised and not mere brutes. Would not all mothers want revenge for the death of their child? So, too, modern texts allow us to explore our response to modern issues that are imperfectly understood or cannot be addressed directly. For example, a vampire is an alienated and disabled individual that cannot be a full member of contemporary society because of physical and dietary problems. How does such a person survive? What should society's response be? Stoker's Dracula is an Eastern European with sophisticated but decadent tastes. How does the original compare with the Dracula in the series by Saberhagen or Newman? Are the other representations of vampirism evolving over time so that Whedon's TV characters Angel or Spike become modern heroes (even role models) and, in the film or comic version, Blade is a superhero? In other words, the tropes of fantasy deliberately transcend literal reality and, by adopting metaphor and other figurative techniques, enable us to more safely confront sensitive social issues (in the case of vampires: what codes of morality are developed in exclusive groups that must prey on the majority to survive; what are the initiation rites to admit new members to the group; and how should society respond in defence of the innocent victims and the prosecution of those whose nature and nurture predispose them to the sometimes violent exploitation of the weak?). David91 09:54, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The section on High Fantasy would benefit from some a heavy dose of WP:NPOV. (I happen to agree with the opinion that underlies the section, but that's not the point.) A recent interview with R Scott Bakker (a self-professed Tolkienite) contains a much more profound description of the viewpoints surrounding of High Fantasy. Arbor 11:40, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)