Talk:Weird Tales

Stand-alone page for Henneberger?

J.C. Henneberger was the founder of Weird Tales. He was associated with it during its glory days and into the late '30's. He has vastly more Wikipedia notability than necessary to have his own page. Shoud he not be more than a redirect to Weird Tales? Without him, no WT. I've written a short, starter Wiki page for Henneberger but will wait for consensus before publishing.Mwinog2777 (talk) 04:55, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

So long as you have enough sources specifically about him, go ahead. I hesitated to create a page on him because there was nothing I could say about him that wasn't already in the article on Weird Tales; all the coverage I could find on him was essentially about his role in the magazine's history. John Locke's book, The Thing's Incredible, mentioned above, might be a good source on Henneberger. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 07:09, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Changes recommended based on new research in The Thing's Incredible!

Gondorian (talk) 19:49, 12 January 2019 (UTC):

Opening para:

• within a year the magazine was in financial trouble:: the magazine virtually started out in distress due to use of an expensive printer on Detective Tales

  Mentioned in the body; I don't think this needs to be in the lead. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:05, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

• Henneberger sold his interest in the publisher, Rural Publishing Corporation, to Lansinger and refinanced Weird Tales, with Farnsworth Wright as the new editor.:: The “reorganization” was more complicated than that; essentially, Lansinger got College Humor and the printer got Weird Tales while Henneberger remained owner in name only

  I think the details can be left to the body; the lead is just a summary. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:05, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

• The first issue under Wright's control was dated November 1924.:: That was one of their big secrets. Wright had taken over as interim editor as early as Feb, quit the company in anger while the Anniversary Issue was underway, then got lured back.

  Corrected to "first issue to list Wright as editor". The body gives the information about the Anniversary issue. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:05, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

  Have also mentioned Wright's brief departure. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:11, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Background:

• It was initially unsuccessful, and as part of a refinancing plan Henneberger decided to publish another magazine that would allow him to split some of his costs between the two titles.:: I didn’t find any information on a refinancing at this time. Maybe that’s mixed-up with what happened in 1924.

  This is from Ashley (2000) p. 41; he says Henneberger needed to do some refinancing after the Detective Tales's "rocky start". Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:35, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Rural Publishing

• The issues table: this could use an asterisk/note for the Jul/Aug 1923 issue; it’s actually the Aug issue, opposite of what you would guess

  The cover has "July-August", though the "August" is in a larger font. It's indexed by philsp.com as July-August so I think it's best to leave it as is. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:38, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

• May 1923, was the only one that first year to sell out completely :: not sure where they got this info

  I took it from Weinberg -- I think it can be left in as we have no reason to disbelieve the source. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:40, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

• the total debt was over $40,000 :: that was the Jan 1924 figure; it was higher by mid-year

  Added a little, and also added to the note, citing Locke, giving more details. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:52, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

• Henneberger decided to sell both magazines to Lansinger and invest the money in Weird Tales. :: as above
• The printing company was owned by B. Cornelius :: Cornelius Printing Company, Indianapolis; there was no B. Cornelius

  Cleaned up. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:32, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

• Popular Fiction Publishing :: the name change was probably to make it look like the mag was under new management
• Henneberger had hopes of eventually refinancing the debt with the help of another printer, Hall Printing Company, owned by Robert Eastman. :: that’s an early 1930s thing

  I've added a statement based on Locke p. 234 that it's not known when Henneberger and Eastman discussed this, and corrected the date of Eastman's death per Locke. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:37, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

• eventually either he declined or Henneberger simply gave up :: HPL declined

  Locke (2018) pp. 157-161 covers the offer of the editorship to Lovecraft; I can't see any definitive statement there that Lovecraft actively declined. Locke refers to "Lovecraft's reasons for turning down the job", but also says "Lovecraft was discreet enough not to make his refusal definitive". I've added Locke as a citation for this sentence but haven't changed it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:31, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

• By the end of the year Wright had been hired as the new editor :: as above
• The last issue under Baird's name was a combined May/June/July issue :: he was uninvolved with WT by then

  I think this is OK -- it was published under his name, and the next sentence is "It was assembled by Wright and Kline, rather than Baird." Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:35, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Popular Fiction Publishing

• The first issue with Wright as editor was dated November 1924 :: as above
• Some of Popular Fiction Publishing's debts were paid off over time :: debts to authors were paid off by 1926; the debts to Cornelius were never paid off, but became moot once WT was sold to Delaney in 1938

  I don't think there's anything in Locke that mentions that the debts to authors were paid off, but would add that if it can be sourced. Otherwise I don't think this is inaccurate, it's just not as specific as it would be with more sourcing. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:58, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Delaney

• Cornelius retired in 1938, and Popular Fiction Publishing was sold :: it was the Cornelius family business, which continued into the late 1960s; founder George Cornelius died in 1946; have no information on whether he retired before that

  Cut to "In 1938 Popular ..." Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:01, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

• In March 1940, Wright left and was replaced by McIlwraith as editor; histories of the magazine differ as to whether he was fired because of poor sales, or quit because of his health—he was by now suffering from Parkinson's so severely that he had trouble walking unassisted. :: it’s the last reason; he was near-death and forced out

  Reworked to use Locke as the main source; relegated the other descriptions to the footnote. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:11, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Edwin Baird

• The writers Henneberger had been hoping to publish, such as Garland and Hough, failed to submit anything to Baird :: this is a common misreading of a 1968 Henneberger letter

  Added a note that it's unlikely any of these writers ever meant to submit anything. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:25, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

• It is unclear whether Baird or Henneberger was responsible for buying Lovecraft's stories :: Baird; from the evidence he gets primary credit for nurturing HPL; Henneberger claimed credit later
• Henneberger has said that he overrode Baird and that Baird did not like Lovecraft's writing :: not clear that this is true

  Move this into a footnote as "claimed"; per Locke the article now says Baird gets the credit. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:36, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

• It was Henneberger who came up with another idea involving Lovecraft :: this was part of the “editorial reorganization,” which my book revealed for the first time; the financial reorganization came after the Anniversary Issue was out

  Reworded to make this clearer. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:29, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

• According to Eddy, this led to the magazine being removed from the newsstands in several cities :: no evidence of this; it does appear, though, that the story caught the attention of the printer and thus made Wright gun-shy for gruesome material in the future
• S. T. Joshi has said the magazine was indeed removed from newsstands in Indiana :: no evidence of this; it’s a misinterpretation of a joke in one of HPL’s letters

  Added the denial per Locke; I don't think I can remove the existing text though, partly as it's well-known and some readers will expect it to be addressed, and also because Joshi has a reputation as Lovecraft's biographer and his view should be reported. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:35, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Farnsworth Wright

• His first issue, November 1924 :: as above
• Arthur J. Burks, who would go on to be a very successful pulp writer, appeared under both his real name and under a pseudonym, used for his first sale, in January 1925. :: Burks was in Nov and Dec as Estil Critchie, thereafter under his own name

  Corrected. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:44, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Bibliographic details

• The Baird/Wright entries need some additional context now; and Kline could be added for his work on the Anniversary Issue

Misc

• E. Hoffmann Price : two n’s

  Fixed. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:44, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Gondorian, thanks for these notes. I've fixed the spelling of E. Hoffmann Price's name, but for the other points I'd need a copy of The Thing's Incredible!. I'm going to try to get a copy via interlibrary loan, but it's not in any of the libraries in my library system so I'm not very optimistic. If you would like to go ahead and make these changes yourself, please do. In cases where you remark above that it's not clear what the truth is, we should probably keep the old information and add notes about the uncertainty, rather than just removing the comments. For example, the story about the magazine being removed from the newsstands is widespread enough that it should be mentioned and debunked, rather than cut. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:51, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

My pleasure, Mike_Christie. As I say, it's a bit of project to integrate these changes; and some of the issues are complicated enough that it would take some careful consideration to synopsize them accurately. I don't really have enough time for that right now; I've moved on to another all-consuming project. Re: old information: yes, where not specifically disproven these could be recast as claims. Re: banned in Indiana: this makes a nice urban legend for Weird Tales; in fact, much of the prior history of the first two years could be classified as mythology; how much of this should be retained for an encyclopedia entry is probably not for me to say; I'm highly biased in favor of my own interpretation of events. Gondorian (talk) 16:11, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Fair enough. If/when I get a copy, I'll integrate the information; if someone else gets to it first that would be fine too. Thanks again for the useful list of points to update. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:34, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

I have a copy and plan to work on this next. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:25, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

I think everything above is now addressed. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:12, 8 March 2024 (UTC)